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Re: Kemrese Flag
At 18:04 10/1/98, Andrew Smith wrote:
>Without hunting through the lives of the saints for an appropriate
Why a martyr? The Irish remain very attached to St Patrick & he needed no
martyrdom to achieve this.
What's wrong with the present Welsh patron, Dewi Sant? But if you want a
martyr then, Gwenfrewi (St Winefride), the patron of north Wales is the
obvious choice. I do not, however, know what her symbolism is.
>a celtic cross might be a possible symbol, with or without
>the animal symbolism. This would be in keeping with the various national
>crosses that are combined into the Union Jack.
Probably really only two national crosses: the red + on white background of
St George for England & the white X on blue background of St Andrew for
Scotland (neither saints having any direct connexion with either country;
the original English patron was St Edward the Confessor. He was ousted
when returning crusaders brought the cult of St George, popular among
eastern Christians, to this country).
The original Union Flag had only these two crosses & was adopted after the
union of England & Scotland in 1707.
The so-called cross of St Patrick, the red X on white background, is not
acknowledged as such by the Irish and was added after the Union with
Ireland in 1801. Although that union ceased in 1922, the cross remains.
Wales, of course, has no representation on the Union Jack since Henry VIII
had formally incorporated it within England in 1536. It wasn't until this
century that it was once again formally re-instated as a separate
principality within the United Kingdom.
>I imagined the dove would be white, and descending.
Before you decide firmly on a dove, I think the present Welsh Standard
should not be forgotten. It was raised by Henry Tudor when he landed in
Wales to march against Richard III. But the red dragon has a longer
ancestory, going back to the standards of the Roman legions. The red
dragon fluttered behind the standards as they marched. The dragon survived
because the Romanized Celts, resisting the Saxon invaders, considered
This seems very apposite for the Kemrese who even maintained a Romance
laguage. Surely the symbols of Rome would have meant much to them. Don't
abandon 'y Ddraig Goch' too readily!
The other well known Roman symbol was, of course, the eagle. And as eagles
are known in Wales - Snowdonia is called, in Welsh, 'Eryri' (the place of
eagles) <-- eryr (eagle).